Model Engineering In Thailand and South East Asia

Model of an LMS Black Five Loco Front Bogie for Gauge 1. (1 3/4″ or 45 mm Gauge)

Photos of a Gauge 1 (3/8″ scale) Black Five Locomotive bogie based on LBSC’s 3 1/2″ gauge  (3/4″ scale) “Doris” plus related documents.

It’s based on the 3 1/2″ gauge (3/4″ scale) LMS Black 5 Engine “Doris” as designed by LBSC but I scaled it down to half that size.

What Is A Black Five And Who Is “Doris”?

Well, I can’t expect everyone to know these things, but here is the answer:-

photo 3.5 Gauge LBSC Doris Black Five Model

3.5 Gauge LBSC Doris Black Five Model

“Doris” is the name given to a model steam locomotive designed by the late and great “LBSC”. The model is based on the LMS Stanier 4-6-0 Class 5 loco introduced by William Stanier in 1934.

“Doris” is designed to run on tracks of 3.5″ gauge and is to a scale of 3/4″ to one foot.

And Who Is Dot?

“Dot” is again and LBSC designed model loco of the same prototype but is half the scale of “Doris” at 3/8″ to the foot and runs on tracks of 1 3/4″ gauge. This is known as gauge One, or G1.

So What Is a Bogie And Is it “Doris” Or “Dot” You Are Building?

At the time I wanted to build the complete engine but part-way through the bogie construction was as far as i got.

This photo shows the bogie on Doris:-

Image 3.5 Gauge LBSC Doris Black Five Model Bogie

3.5 Gauge LBSC Doris Black Five Model Bogie

Limited Workshop Facilities

At the time (1993) my ‘workshop’ was in an upstairs boxroom and basically comprised just a small lathe called a Minilor TR-1.

The Minilor TR-1 Lathe was made in France and sold in the UK in the early 90’s by Hegner UK Ltd. A Milling head was available called the FR1 In many ways it was similar to the Emco Compact 5 but the Minilor was made from cheaper materials and not to the same standard as the Compact Five. The price was a fraction of the Emco lathe but just couldn’t perform.

The Minilor TR-1 Lathe was 65 mm centre height and about 350 mm between centres. Here is a photo of what’s left of it today. (2015)

By the way that lathe has been re-purposed and is currently on the cross slide of my big Kinwa lathe acting as a very effective spherical turning attachment.

Photo of Minilor Lathe General View

Minilor Lathe General View

I wanted to build the larger 3 1/2″ gauge Doris but due to limited facilities it had to be Dot.

“Doris” Detail At A “Dot” Size

The “Dot” design was a very much simplified version of “Doris”. “Doris” has external valve gear which is entirely omitted on Dot. See the photo where I have marked up the valve gear on Doris – those bright flashy steel rods:-

Photo 3.5 Gauge LBSC Doris Black Five Model Valve Gear

3.5 Gauge LBSC Doris Black Five Model Valve Gear

I just had to have this external valve gear on my model so I tried to copy it from Doris. (More on this later)

Also for example the Dot bogie was a very simple affair lacking much of Doris’s detail so I decided to scale down and model the Doris Bogie.

I was aiming for a model with Doris’s detail at a Dot size.

Other Related Content On This Web page

Also shown are various purchased drawings of the 3 1/2″ gauge LBSC’s “Doris” and his Gauge 1 version “Dot”. There are also the CAD drawings I made at the time and various other related documents and a photo of the lathe I used to make the model on.

I made this model in 1993, some 22 years ago. Being 22 years old and simply kept in a tin box as I moved house several times, the model has suffered from rust and a few parts have fallen off.

The model really is tiny and the photos are deceptive. Because of the fine detail of the model it looks bigger than it actually is.

This page is not just a few photos of a model. It illustrates my approach to model engineering 22 years ago and which has changed little since then. It also proves that I can make small models not just half sized traction engines.

Photos Of the Gauge One Black Five Bogie

G1 Black Five Bogie

Photos of a Gauge 1 (3/8 scale) Black Five Locomotive bogie I made some 22 years ago. It's based on the 3 1/2 gauge (3/4 scale) LMS Black 5 Engine Doris as designed by LBSC but I scaled it down to half that size.

[img src=http://modelengineeringinthailand.com/wp-content/flagallery/g1-black-five-bogie/thumbs/thumbs_gauge-1-black-five-bogie-hand-held-004.jpg]00Gauge 1 Black Five Bogie Held In Hand
This photo shows the Gauge 1 Black Five model loco bogie held in the hand to show how tiny it really is. That small screw on the top has been taken from the model and is 10 BA (1.6 mm Diameter)
[img src=http://modelengineeringinthailand.com/wp-content/flagallery/g1-black-five-bogie/thumbs/thumbs_gauge-1-black-five-bogie-001-general.jpg]00General View Of The Gauge 1 Black Five Bogie
A photo of a gauge 1 Black Five Locomotive bogie I made some 22 years ago. It is based on a half sized version of the LMS Black 5 Engine "Doris" designed by LBSC.
[img src=http://modelengineeringinthailand.com/wp-content/flagallery/g1-black-five-bogie/thumbs/thumbs_gauge-1-black-five-bogie-002-front.jpg]00Front View Of The Gauge 1 Black Five Bogie
The front view of the gauge 1 model of a Black Five loco bogie shows the steel frames and steel stretcher.
[img src=http://modelengineeringinthailand.com/wp-content/flagallery/g1-black-five-bogie/thumbs/thumbs_gauge-1-black-five-bogie-003-top.jpg]00View From The Top Of The Front Bogie For The Gauge 1 Black Five
To give you and idea of size the distance between the wheel flanges is 45 mm to suit gauge 1 track.
[img src=http://modelengineeringinthailand.com/wp-content/flagallery/g1-black-five-bogie/thumbs/thumbs_gauge-1-black-five-bogie-004-side.jpg]00This Photo Shows The Side Of The Gauge 1 Bogie.
Note the tiny rivets fixing the axlebox hornplates to the frame. They are just visible between the wheel spokes.
[img src=http://modelengineeringinthailand.com/wp-content/flagallery/g1-black-five-bogie/thumbs/thumbs_gauge-1-black-five-bogie-005-underside.jpg]00A General View Of The Underside Of The Gauge 1 Bogie
This shows to component parts and general construction details of the LMS Black Five bogies modelled at 1:32 or 3/8" to the foot for Gauge 1. (1 3/4" gauge)
[img src=http://modelengineeringinthailand.com/wp-content/flagallery/g1-black-five-bogie/thumbs/thumbs_gauge-1-black-five-bogie-006-close-up-side.jpg]00Side View Close-Up Photo. Note The Nicely Radiused Frames.
The bogie bolster is fixed to the bogie side frames with seven tiny 10 BA (1.6 mm Diameter) countersunk screws on each side.
[img src=http://modelengineeringinthailand.com/wp-content/flagallery/g1-black-five-bogie/thumbs/thumbs_gauge-1-black-five-bogie-007-close-up-underside-stretcher.jpg]00Underside View Of The Bogie Bolster
The bogie bolster has been machined from a solid piece of steel on a small milling machine. The slot for the bogie pivot pin can be seen.
[img src=http://modelengineeringinthailand.com/wp-content/flagallery/g1-black-five-bogie/thumbs/thumbs_gauge-1-black-five-bogie-008-close-up-underside-wheel.jpg]00Underside Close-Up View Of Hornplates, Axlebox And Bogie Bolster
The horn plate rivets, axle box and horn plate keep are all clearly visible in this photo. The two small set scres holding the keep plate are 12 BA (1.3 mm Diameter). Part of the underside of the steel bogie bolster can also be seen.
[img src=http://modelengineeringinthailand.com/wp-content/flagallery/g1-black-five-bogie/thumbs/thumbs_gauge-1-black-five-bogie-009-close-up-wheel-inside.jpg]00A Clear View Of The Rivets Holding The Axlebox Hornplates
In this photo the five rivets holding each axle box horn plate flange can be seen clearly. The rivets are 1/32" (0.8 mm) diameter. Also, the vertical clearance of the axle box in the horn plates can be seen.
[img src=http://modelengineeringinthailand.com/wp-content/flagallery/g1-black-five-bogie/thumbs/thumbs_gauge-1-black-five-bogie-010-close-up-wheel-front.jpg]00A Front View Of The Front Axle, Wheels And Hornplates
The springing of the axle is missing. Over the years since the model was constructed they must have fallen off - being such tiny pieces.
[img src=http://modelengineeringinthailand.com/wp-content/flagallery/g1-black-five-bogie/thumbs/thumbs_gauge-1-black-five-bogie-011-close-up-wheel-top.jpg]00Showing The Axleboxes In The Hornplates
Even in Gauge 1 which is a scale of 3/8" to the foot (1:32) the hornplates holding the axleboxes are modeled.

Images Of The Drawings Used To Make the Model

First, here is the main CAD drawing I made:-

Image showing My CAD Drawing of LBSC's Doris Black Five Bogie Scaled Down for Gauge 1

My CAD Drawing of LBSC’s Doris Black Five Bogie Scaled Down for Gauge 1

LBSC’s Doris is a design for model Stanier Black five for 3 1/2″ gauge. I scaled down his Doris bogie drawing and simplified it to suit Gauge 1. (1 3/4″ gauge)

And here is a detail from that drawing showing the axle springing arrangement:-

Scan Axle Springing Detail From The Cad GA Drawing

Axle Springing Detail From The Cad GA Drawing

The scan above is a close-up of my CAD Drawing of the Gauge 1 Black Five Bogie showing the springing detail.

Note the tiny size of some of the screws, 14 BA for the Axle Box Keep for example. 14 BA is 1 mm diameter and the tapping drill is 0.82 mm (No. 66)

Print out of CAD Drawing Of The Gauge One Bogie Showing Wheel Profile Angles

CAD Drawing Of The Gauge One Bogie Showing Wheel Profile Angles

It is important to get the wheel tyre profile correct to G1 Standards. This CAD drawing shows me adding the wheel profile angles.

Image Part of The GA Drawing Of LBSC's G1 "Dot"

Part of The GA Drawing Of LBSC’s G1 “Dot”

Part of the General Arrangement drawing of the Gauge One Stanier Black Five Loco model designed by LBSC. The lack of outside valve gear is noticeable.

Image Close-Up Of My CAD Drawing of The Gauge 1 Black Five Bogie

Close-Up Of My CAD Drawing of The Gauge 1 Black Five Bogie

Extract From LBSC's Drawing For His Gauge 1 "Dot" Image

Extract From LBSC’s Drawing For His Gauge 1 “Dot”

My Bogie Equaliser CAD Drawing For My Gauge 1 Black 5 Bogie Scan

My Bogie Equaliser CAD Drawing For My Gauge 1 Black 5 Bogie

This is a CAD drawing I made for the equalisers for the Gauge one version of LBSC’s 3 1/12″ Gauge “Doris”. It is based on the Doris drawing but scaled down to suit Gauge 1.

Scan A Hand Drawn Sketch Setting Out The Wheel And Frame Dimensions

A Hand Drawn Sketch Setting Out The Wheel And Frame Dimensions

Before making a CAD drawing some key dimensions need to be established. This is a sketch I made to determine the critical setting out dimensions of the wheels and frames for the Gauge One Black Five model loco.

Image of Original LBSC 3 1/2" Gauge "Doris" Bogie Drawing

Original LBSC 3 1/2″ Gauge “Doris” Bogie Drawing

The original drawing by LBSC of the bogie for his 3 1/2″ Gauge LMS Stanier Black Five Loco. You can see where I have marked up the drawing with metric dimensions at half size to suit 1 3/4″ Gauge (G1).

Piston Valves And Green Arrow

Although I only ever made the bogie of the Black Five my intention at the time was to make the complete locomotive and whilst building the bogies I was looking forward to other aspects of the LBSC Dot design that needed amending.

One of these was the external Walchaersts valvegear which as I have explained was non-existent on Dot.

Dot’s bigger sister, Doris had external Walchaersts valvegear but also had piston valves which I thought would be impracticable if scaled down to gauge 1. The piston valves were far to fiddly for a 3/8″ scale model.

Scan of LBSC Doris Drawing Piston Valve Cylinders

LBSC Doris Drawing Piston Valve Cylinders

LBSC’s own drawing of the cylinder and piston valve assembly for his 3.5 inch gauge Black Five “Doris”.

Scan A Close Up Of The LBSC Doris Piston Valve Cylinder Drawing

A Close Up Of The LBSC Doris Piston Valve Cylinder Drawing

Getting a gas-tight seal between the piston valve itself and the piston valve bore would be a major challenge in Gauge 1.

Image of Valvegear From Martin Evans' Gauge 1 Green Arrow Model

Valvegear From Martin Evans’ Gauge 1 Green Arrow Model

The valve gear on the Gauge 1 steam loco model of green Arrow designed by Martin Evans is full Walschaerts outside valve gear. I was interested to incorporate it into my Gauge 1 Black Five model. preliminary investigations suggested that it was entirely feasible.

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3 Responses to Gauge 1 Black Five Bogie

  • Many thanks for your nice words George.

    I have no intention of finishing the Black Five engine. It’s all history now.

    But I do have here a modern ‘kit’ of laser-cut parts for a Fowler Dock Tank in Gauge 1. If I can find someone with a TIG welder to weld up the frame tabs then it’s a goer.

  • Very Impressive & detailed workmanship. You must have been a tool maker or clock maker in a past life; getting all those tiny parts to line up is no simple task,…but you’ve made it look easy. Bravo!!!

    Mike

  • Good morning Alan
    A nice start Alan. Just goes to show the rust bug is every where.
    I hope you get to finish the engine to the same standard. But I think you have set a very high goal. Given the size and redesign of the valve gear you intend to work to.
    Best of luck
    George

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